At this point Chuck Todd says "Truth is truth", and Giuliani responded with this gem: "Truth isn't truth".
"I think this is going to become a bad meme", Todd warned Giuliani.
Giuliani, who's representing Trump in the investigation, said the president's legal team has been negotiating with Mueller's investigators for months about the ground rules for the president to testify.
"Truth is a truth, Mr. Mayor", Todd insisted.
"Yes", the president's lawyer insisted. "And when you tell me that, you know, he should testify because he is going to tell the truth and he shouldn't worry, that's so silly because it's somebody's version of the truth, not the truth".
"No, no, don't do this to me", Giuliani said, head in hands, when he realized the hole he had dug for himself. He was trying to make the case that having Trump sit down for an interview with special counsel Robert Mueller's team wouldn't accomplish much because of the he-said-she-said nature of witnesses' recollections.
In addition to somehow topping Kellyanne Conway's infamous "alternative facts" statement (which, coincidentally, also happened in a Meet the Press interview), the comment is also the ideal phrase to describe what's unfolded on the internet over the previous year.More news: Another trial awaits Manafort in September
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The former NY mayor also had an exchange with "Meet the Press" host Chuck Todd in which he said "truth isn't truth" when it comes to two people telling different stories. "Not the truth", Giuliani told Todd.
He added Sunday in response to Trump's tweets that he doubts the president has "ANY IDEA what McGahn has told Mueller". This time around, it was yet another batshit appearance from Rudy Giuliani, the guy who used to be a New York City mayor that at least some people respected and who has now completed his transformation into some kind of blathering goblin henchman within Trump's circles. "You told me, did they show an intention to do anything with Russians?"
Mr Trump's original legal team had encouraged Mr McGahn and other White House officials to cooperate with Mr Mueller, and Mr McGahn spent hours in interviews.
This interview comes amid the everlasting dance between the Trump administration and Mueller's team.
"No, no, no. don't do this to me", Giuliani said. "The president is at the center of everything that he's investigating, and he hasn't testified or given an interview yet at all".